HomeMy WebLinkAbout1963-11-13city council minutesCOUNCIL CHAMBEHS
NOVEMBER 13, 1963
10:30 A.M. _
The Council met pursuant to call and acknowledgement of notice in the following form:
We, the undersigned Acting Mayor and Members of the City Councii . of the City of Caldwell, Idaho,
do each hereby acknowledge notice of a Special Meeting of the said City Council, to be held in the Council
Chambers in the City Hall in the City of Caldwell, Idaho, at the hour of 10:30 A.M., on the 13th day of
November, 1963, for the transaction of all business in connection with the following object: Hearing concern
ing the vacation of a part of 0 "Hare Street.
Witness our signatures this 13th day of November, 1963.
✓� Ling Mayor /�
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Cou Cilman lma
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Councilman 1 Councilman -
Aoting Mayor Emery L. Vassar presiding.
Upon Roll Call, the following Councilmen answered present: E. L. Vassar, Emile Shorb, Max Luby,
C. A. Davenport, V. Jay Martin, and N. E. "Coley" Smith.
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Acting Mayor Vassar called the meeting to order and stated that it was a special meeting called for
the purpose of reconsidering an application of Mr. Thames regarding the closing of O'Hara Street which in-
volved a statement made by Mrs. Alice Taggart giving her consent to the application of Mr. Thames and
previously read at the meeting held on November 6, 1963.
Acting Mayor Vassar then re -read the letter aforementioned afterwhich he stated that he understood
that Mrs. Taggart didn't understand all of this at the time and he then called upon Mrs. Taggart, who was
)resent, asking her if she had an explanation at this time.
Mrs. Alice Taggart explained that she had the property listed for sale as a building property and
Shen, after she had signed the statement, she thought probably that would spoil it for a building site facing
P Hara Street and then after she had got to thinking about it, she had wished she would have had more time
:nd a little time to reconsider it.
Acting Mayor Vassar then inquired of Mrs. Taggart if she had changed her mind after she had re-
;onsidered and she answered, "Yes, I believe I have, I believe I'd rather have it open. At the time I didn't
'igure I could pay for curb and gutter, but, if I sold it, I probably could have the party buying the propert,
o ahead and pay the expense of curb and gutter after it had become a street and she had a sewer on the end
f the street and what would the sewer be used for just on a vacant lot "1
Acting Mayor Vassar then inquired of Mrs. Taggart if her main objection was that she was not able
0 pay for curb and gutter when Mrs. Taggart answered that that was what she thought but now if she sold or
f her son -in -law was to build, they could assume that and so she had decided that she would rather have the
treet open; that she thought it would add to her property.
Councilman Shorb stated that it wasn't a question of curb and gutter; that it was just a matter of
!cess. That Mrs. Taggart wouldn't have access to that area which was the pertinent thing, he thought.
At the request of Councilman Luby and Councilman Smith, the tape recording of the pertinent parts
' the discussion relative to the matter from the Council meeting held on November 6, 1963 was reviewed by
is Council and those present at thie time.
Councilman Luby referred to the amount of discussion had regarding the request and mentioned that
had taken Mr. Stanley Thames to task over it because he had wanted to be sure of everything before he said
se that he wanted to be sure when he said yes to something like this and he didn't want to back down after
had said yes; that that was the way he felt about it.
Councilman Smith directed a question to Mr. Donald R. Cromwell (Mrs. Taggart's son -in -law) and to
s. Donald Cromwell in that he (Councilman Smith) had told Mr. Thames that if she (Mrs. Taggart) had any
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objections about closing the street that. he couldn't vote for it; that the statement she had signed was a
simple statement and why did they allow her (Mrs. Taggart) to sign it if she objected now? '19rat the state-
ment said in one line that she was in accord with the closing of the street.
Mrs. Taggart stated that she wasn't feeling very well and she just didn't think too much about it
and Mr. Thames had said that he would have to have the papers in by 4 -00 o'clock.
Councilman Smith asked: "Did you folks think this was wrong at the time?
Mr. Donald Cromwell stated that he didn't know anything about it until after everything was said
and done and then, they called it to his attention; that, "well, then I told her she had the property up for
• building site ".
Mrs. Cromwell stated "Re never told me that he wanted to build on it though; she has asked him
• lot of times if he wanted to build and I told her that I didn't know, he hadn't told me and then after-
wards, well, he said that he planned on building us a home there".
Councilman Smith stated, "We know that Mr. Thames is a very honorable person and he is not trying
to pull anything, we know that; but, as a friend of yours, I was surprised when you signed it; it was very
short and a witnessed statement by you which makes it awfully hard to understand why this was ever signed
in the first place and it puts us in a kind of an embarrassing position. We didn't want to nor do we make
It a policy of closing streets when it hurts somebody but this certainly puts us in a very embarrasing
position with Mr. Thames.
Mrs. Taggart stated that she had her home and she had wondered if they (Mr. and Mrs. Cromwell)
would like to build opposite her faring that street but at that time he didn't say and he wasn't home; that
she did have it listed as a building spot and in case her family didn't want to build there, she was going
to sell it but no one would want to buy it if they had to come across someone Blass property.
Councilman Smith inquired of Mrs. Taggart as to what she thought would happen to the lot when she
signed the statement and she answered that, at first, she thought perhaps she would always be there and she
could use it for a garden or something like that or rent it out for a garden as it had taken a long time in
trying to sell and she had thought that she would just use it as a garden.
Councilman with inquired of Mrs. Taggart if she wasn't aware that if the street were closed, that
she wouldn't have a building site left and Mrs. Taggart answered, "yes ". Mr. Smith then inquired if she
didn't realize that the property would de- valuate as a building site if the street was closed and Mrs.
Taggart answered, "yea, I thought it would but I didn't have time to think to much at first ". and then she
thought she would like to have a little more time to think it over.
Councilman Smith inquired of Mrs. Taggart if she had a lawyer or someone whom she had a lot of
confidence in that she could have called and Mrs. Taggart answered: "No, I thought I would and then I like
Mr. and Mrs. Thames as neighbors and I didn't want to do anything to injure them and I thought I still might
be able to use it as a garden or something ". Councilman Smith stated- "You know I'm a darned good friend
of yours and I want to tell you something - that you shouldn't sign these kind of papers so fast without
consulting somebody ". Mrs. Taggart answered "That's right and I thought about it afterwards, that I should
have ".
In discussing the improvements in the area, Mr. Cromwell stated that Mr. Scaggs had put a sewer
line from Polk to Nixon for the one house on the corner of Ohio and Nixon and that he had put in a "T' on
Mrs. Taggarts property for a house to connect onto should they go ahead and build on it.
Mrs. Cromwell then stated that there were all her brothers; that her mother hadn't consulted them
and they were in Oregon; that after all, they were all heirs and had a part to say too. Mrs. Taggart said
that she just didn't have time and she didn't want to hold Mr. Thames plans up.
Mrs. Cromwell then said that if they could get a written statement that Mr. Thames would buy the
place, she thought Mrs. Taggart would be satisfied as she wanted to sell it real bad.
Councilman Davenport inquired if there hadn't been considerable discussion between the three of
them this morning and inquired as to who had contacted Mel Levis about it. Mrs. Taggart answered that it
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had been just between she and her daughter. Mr. Cromwell stated that he had talked with Mr. Lewis when he
found out about it and that he had just asked him if they decided to build on it, with that road closed, what --
access would they have to it and that Mr. Lewis had told him that there would be no access to it.
Councilman Davenport then asked if he had talked to Mrs. Taggart after this and before she had
signed the statement. Mr. Cromwell answered that he didn't know when she had signed the statement but that
she had been over to the house the morning he had talked to Mr. Lewis and that he had talked to her then and
told her that if they wanted to build on the property then, there wouldn't be any access, no water rights, no
nothing. Mrs. Taggart spoke and said "yes, but he didn't say he wanted to buy it ".
In answer to the question, Mr. Lewis stated that he had talked to Mr. Cromwell last Wednesday
morning, the day of the Council meeting and Mr. Thames stated that Mrs. Taggart had signed the statement that
afternoon at about 1:00 o'clock.
Mr. Stanley Thames then asked if he could say a word here and being answered in the affirmative,
stated that, in line with the discussion Mrs. Taggart, and your statement that you were in accord with havir
the street closed, you will recall that on Monday night which was the regularly scheduled council meeting,
"I called on you and asked you what you thought about closing O'Hara and without any hesitation, you told me
that you thought it would be a good idea and so I said that I would appreciate it because I wanted to have i
closed and later you called me at home and thought that perhaps we should discuss it with Mrs. Ross who owns
the property next door to you ". "So, I called Nos. Ross and located her after three telephone calls in
Seattle and she agreed to have the street closed and I called you and offered to pay the telephone expense
for you to call her and have her varify it and you said, well, you would take my word for it ". "And then,
on Wednesday, I asked you to sign the deposition because I had asked you to come to the council meeting with
me but you had a Veterans group meeting, I believe or something that evening, and you said you couldn't come
to the council meeting with me.
Councilman Luby stated that, "well, you know, when somebody signs something, as far as I'm concern
ad, that's it. We went around and around here for about half an hour on this thing and it was proven to me
that everything was all right; that's the reason I say close the street and I'll tell you from my own
experience that I did the same thing once; I signed a man access to a lane of mine and that was it, I mean
there were no ifs and ands about it afterwards, so, as far as I'm concerned, the street was closed when we
sassed the Ordinance here the other night and I still say that now as everything was proven to us that it was
:11 right. I don't like to be hard but I was hard with Mr. Thames that night and when its proven to me that
rverything is all right, why that's the way it is and I just don't feel like backing down on this thing at
X11 because there is bound to be some other arrangements that can be made now."
Councilman Martin then stated: "All this lengthy discussion was prompted by the fact that we were
oncerned, at that time, about what was going to happen to this property; in other words, the discussion was
n your (Mrs. Taggart) interest rather than Mr. Thames".
Councilman %nith stated: "Stan, I'm going to say my piece, I know you are a very honorable guy
nd I like you very much and I know that your proceedings here have been just as honest and honorable as I
ould have done it myself, but, Mrs. Taggart is not a young woman and she is alone, and, in my opinion, this
s going to hurt her property, so I an going to have to vote against you. I would vote against my own mother
nder the same conditions. I hope you believe that as I wouldn't want to loose your friendship but I told
m two weeks ago that I would not vote to close the street if it would hurt Mrs. Taggart and I was astounded
sen this statement of Mrs. Taggarts came in. I don't want to oppose you and would do anything in the world
> help you but I can not, in all good concirnee, I just can not vote to close the street now ".
City Attorney Dean Miller inquired as to how the time situation was if the City went through the
dinary proceedure and set a time to determine the damage, if any, to Mrs. Taggart's property which, he said
:e City had to do anyway.
Mr. Thames answered in explanation: "As I mentioned at both the council meetings; I said I don't
ant to do anything that would adversely affect the value of Mrs. Taggart's property, all of you heard me say
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that. I also said that time was of the essence; I have made a contract since the story appeared in last
Wednesday nights paper that this Ordinance was passed and the street was closed; I have entered into an
agreement with a building supply firm, with a contractor; I have conveyed title to one piece of property; I
have asked for a dead to be brought up on another one and I have obligated myself considerably. I had no
idea that there would be any question or reversal of this; in fact, I called Dean up this morning to ask
about it before finalizing some other things. Now then, there would be some problems that would not only
involve me if this street were opened and I would like to point it out here and I would like to point it out
on this map." By use of the map, Mr. Thames pointed out the various locations and with reference to the
statement of Mrs. Taggart that possibly they would like to build a home on that one lot, he said that
recently Michigan Street was curbed, guttered and paved, and that his property was assessed about $1,300.00
for that. He said that ?ors. Taggart had said that if O'Hara Street was opened, she would like to have this
curbed, guttered and paved but that he would hnild no homes on that street, now or at any other time, and if
he left it in horse pasture, he would not want to pay $1,300.00 for improvements to accomodate her one house
on that street and said that it would be cheaper for him to buy the one lot, from Mfrs. Taggart. He stated
that, on the other hand, he would not want a dirt road opened there which would be nothing more than an alley
full of weeds, rocks and chuck holes. He then further stated that with the buildings and home sites as he
had planned in the area and the street closed, the area could all be beautified, have pavement and all the
improvements that they wanted.
Mr. Thames than stated further that he had planned on going over this week to see Mrs. Taggart,
and if she would put a reasonable price on the property there, pay her $75.00 or $100.00 for an option on it,
but he didn't know whether they would go ahead with the full developement, on it and he could make no promise
on it; but the point he wanted to make was that he did not want O'Hara Street opened as long as he owned the
property adjacent because he did not. want to obligate himself for another $1,300.00 worth of improvements
just to glorify a horse pasture and he did not want, just a dirt road through there.
After some discussion between Mr. Thames and Mrs. Taggart, Councilman Shorb stated that it looked
to him like the only solution to the thing would be a trade of Mrs. Taggart's nrnperty with Mr. Miller so as
to arrange two facings on Hire Street or else not close the street because he felt like Councilman Smith in
that he would hate to damage a persons property by closing the street.
Councilman biby inquired of Mrs. Taggart and Mr. Thames if there was some possibility of them
getting together and working something out between them.
Mr. Thames then inquired of Mrs. Taggart as to what 90 to 100 feet of her property behind her home
would be worth to her and Mrs. Taggart answered that she didn't know as she had it .listed for sale with six
real estate people and they were to get what they could on it for her.
Property values were discussed afterwhich Councilman Davenport stated that it certainly was an
unfortunate situation and that it seemed to him that it was a question of who was going to get hurt the,
worst in that the council had closed the street., Mr. Thames had obligated himself and and now it seemed that
the logical thing to do was for someone to work something out on the property to the satisfaction of all
City Attorney Dean Miller stated that, the Council should also consider, from all the evidence, that
Mr. Thames had talked to Mrs. Taggart about the matter several times before he appeared before the Council;
that he had her consent and the Council had acted on it; that it had been a week and that yesterday was the
first time anyone knew that there was any objection to it. He stated that while he thought everybody was
aware that undoubtedly, in some respects as Mrs. Taggarts property stood, it might injure her property but
on the other hand, as Mr. Thames had pointed out, it, could well create a situation where the value of her
property could be. improved by joining with those other properties; that he thought, if they could work out
something, they should, because otherwise he could well see where it could be an expensive process for both
of them providing they got into a hassel over the thing.
In answer to the question by Mr. Thames, the City Attorney stated that Council action had been
taken to close the street but that the ordinance had not been published and the street was not closed until
this was all done.
Mr. Thames then stated that Mrs. Taggart "has a good chance of getting a good value for her propel
by going along on this program and if I don't gat footage down here this week, I'm going to give the deal u;
and part of the consideration on this building program was to provide work for quite a few men this winter
on the immediate start of two homes with a third following right soon - now, if this doesn't go, I'm not
going to do any further negotiating; I'm through, the fences can go back up and she is horse pasture.
The City Attorney then informed Mr. Thames that while the Council had voted to close the street,
the ordinance had not been published and, if Mrs. Taggart were so disposed, he thought she could file actiot
for an injunction which would tie the thing up for another 90 to 120 days, even if she were wrong, and that
he thought it behooved all of them to settle on some basis now so there would be no question about it.
Possible solutions to the problem were discussed afterwhich Acting Mayor Vassar stated that he
thought the suggestions were good ones and said that if Mr. Thames and Mrs. Taggart could sit down together
and work the problem out, he thought it would be the proper solution.
Councilman Smith advised Mrs. Taggart that he thought any kind of a trade around with Mr. Miller
that could be worked out or any kind of a fair and reasonable deal she could make with Mr. Thames was the
thing that she should do but that he would advise her not to take an option and that he thought it was more
of a question of sitting down with Mr. Thames and fairly negotiating as to what she was willing to accept
and what he was willing to pay rather than it was to call any outside real estate people in. He said that
one of the worst things that could happen was if they should all wind up mad at one another and that that
would be ridiculous.
It was then agreed that Mr. Thames and Mrs. Taggart would endeavor to work out some solution and
the meeting was adjourned at 12:00 noon.
Acting Mayor
COUNCIL CHAMBERS
NOVEMBER 18, 1963
8:00 P. M.
The Council met pursuant to recess and acknowledgement of notice in the following form:
We, the undersigned Acting Mayor and Members of the City Council of the City of Caldwell, Idaho,
do each hereby acknowledge notice of a Recessed Meting of the said City Council, to be held in the Council
Chambers in the City Hall in the City of Caldwell, Idaho, at the hour of 8:00 P. M., on the 18th day of
November, 1963, for the transaction of all business in connection with the following object: New and
unfinished business.
Witness our signatures this 18th day of November, 1963.
ding Mayor r-
ilm
ouncilman
Councilman
presiding.
Upon Roll Call, the following Councilmen answered present: E. L. Vassar, 1hile Shorb, Max Luby,
A. Davenport, V. Jay Martin, and N. E. "Coley" Smith.
mtract for audit authorized
Acting Mayor Vassar informed the Council that Mr. Anthony Messuri was present in the interest of